title: Darknet will win, not Web3 or Web0
author: 寮
date: 2022-04-11 18:51:59
tags:technology,darknet,anonymity,privacy,internet
----
Both web 3.0 and web0 will eventually fail.\
Web 3.0 is using way too many hardware resources, too much bloat, "decentralization" through centralization (blockchain, NFT, forced paywalls, the dead universe, I mean Metaverse...).

Web0 is actually decentralized, but has tons of problems on its own.\
For example, on https://small-tech.org/ they state web0 is "inclusive", while on their manifesto (https://web0.small-web.org/) they make it very clear that they blanket exclude the lib-right from the get go.

They state "zero knowledge", "private by default", and "easy to use" as their main properties, then on the same page they go big on turning everything into Javascript, which the Web 3.0 guys also want to enforce.

Web 2.0 is on its way out regardless, but I believe what will replace it will be the darknet, specifically Tor and I2P, though Gemini serves well as a next-gen Gopher.

As for other standards:\
IPFS: not anonymous, and forces JS.\
ZeroNet: not anonymous, forces JS, and lack of development.\
Freenet: old and slow, barely anyone uses it anymore.\
Lokinet: proprietary, 1 domain per machine, blockchain meme.\
Yggdrasil: who the fuck even uses that!?\
Qortal: aka, IPFS behind a paywall, what could possibly go wrong...

Tor and I2P are the only darknets that allow you to use the technologies we're already familiar with from web 1.0 and web 2.0, while still cutting out almost every middleman (with the exception of the IPS, which simply can't be cut out until every household has its own ham radio, or otherwise we manage to take over all the cell towers).

## Debate between xianc78 (alt) and 寮

[@ryo](https://social.076.moe/ryo) Jesus Fucking Christ, they could just say "without the corporate bullshit" without bashing the LibRight, but they just had to do so. It's probably going to be another Mastodon situation where it is mostly used by extreme "LibLeft" (really closeted/confused tankie) SJWs.

>until every household has its own ham radio

That would probably be slow as fuck and I can imagine that the government can easily trace radio signals back to their source. HAM Radio is already heavily regulated.\
I just wish the agorists and crypto-anarchists start making black market ISPs or meshnets to solve the ISP problem because it's only a matter of time before governments start forcing ISPs and cellular networks to block P2P and crypto protocols. I've heard proposals to create meshnets by linking pirate boxes together but I don't know how practical that would be. I honestly don't have a solution to this problem but it needs to be addressed because things are only getting worse.\
I'm actually surprised that it's licensed under the AGPL because with that shitty LibRight bashing, I would expect them to use one of those anti-capitalist licenses that a lot of far-left devs have been promoting lately.

[xianc78](https://bae.st/users/xianc78) About the HAM Radio part, imagine you still have enough food stocked up for another 2 years to survive the apocalypse, every house is heavily guarded by military personnel to make absolutely sure you won't get out of your cage, I mean house, and they've shut down every other form of communication, would you even give a fuck about regulations, or it being slow as fuck?\
The tracability might indeed be the one legit concern though.

As for the black market ISPs, that would be great, too bad fiber cables are so heavily controlled by governments and/or big corpoes though.\
I was considering meshnets too, but that reminded me of the Crapple AirTags and Amazon Alexa which technically already are meshnetworks.\
And meshnetworks work fine within big cities, but in the country side though...

P2P and crypto protocols aren't really blockable on the ISP level, you can however block individual IP addresses or hostnames on that specific network.\
You can also block port numbers used by the P2P or crypto protocols, but nothing's stopping you from just changing the port number to something else.

Anti-capitalist loycenses, do you mean GPLv2 and GPLv3, or something else I'm not yet aware of?\
Because MIT and BSD licenses aren't restrictive enough to qualify.

[@ryo](https://social.076.moe/ryo) Shit like this.\
https://anticapitalist.software/\
They basically restrict private businesses from using or modifying the software, so they are much more restrictive than the GPL. There are others. A lot of far-leftists have been promoting these, especially after they threw Stallman under the bus.\
The ironic thing is is that these licenses still permit use of the software by non-profit organizations, but NPOs are still capitalist institutions.\
There are also so called "ethical software licenses" that even restrict freedom 0, making them no different than EULAs. They restricts things like using the software to "spread hate speech" and shit like that.\
https://write.pixie.town/licenses-for-freedom/list-of-licenses-for-freedom

>but nothing's stopping you from just changing the port number to something else.

But doesn't that also mean that everyone else has to change the port number to the same one you change to? I only brought this up because I heard that some ISPs block certain protocols like Usenet or FTP unless you pay an extra fee and I remember hearing proposals to block torrent protocols on ISP level to clamp down on piracy, but these were most likely made by tech-illerate copyright holders.\
And they really don't have to necessarily block the protocols. They could just have a policy that if they catch you using them or if the see any encrypted packets, then they could just cut your Internet. Many universities already have this policy when it comes to file sharing.

[xianc78](https://bae.st/users/xianc78) Holy fuck, they literally even put their ideology into the license name itself, speaking of a lack of creativity.\
Never seen any software using that license before.\
But at least they keep it short.

> The ACSL is right for you if you reject the status quo

Yet another example of binary extremism; you're either on the extreme left or on the extreme right, no middle ground possible.\
Sure, I reject the status quo, but I don't reject self sufficiency.

As I stated in the past, the healthy way to take down the current "capitalist" system (which is just soycialism pretending to be capitalism) is by having a capitalist system of independent entrepreneurs, freelancers, and small businesses, not something as radically opposite of capitalism as communism, I mean New World Order, I mean the great "you'll own nothing and be happy" reset.

If I had to choose, I'd rather go with a meme license like this:\
https://gitler.moe/TechnicalSuwako/senpai-license/src/branch/master/LICENSE.txt

> But doesn't that also mean that everyone else has to change the port number to the same one you change to?

Yes.

> I only brought this up because I heard that some ISPs block certain protocols like Usenet or FTP unless you pay an extra fee

What, is that a thing too now...

> And they really don't have to necessarily block the protocols. They could just have a policy that if they catch you using them or if the see any encrypted packets, then they could just cut your Internet.

I wonder how long it'll take before a mass exitus from those ISPs will come and have such an impact, that they'll be forced to back down, and other ISPs will take note.\
Probably won't happen in current year, unless maybe someone like the Saudi prince would become the largest investor of those ISPs, he's the reason why SNK doesn't censor bouncing tiddies while all the other developers do.

[@ryo](https://social.076.moe/ryo)

>As I stated in the past, the healthy way to take down the current "capitalist" system (which is just soycialism pretending to be capitalism) is by having a capitalist system of independent entrepreneurs, freelancers, and small businesses, not something as radically opposite of capitalism as communism, I mean New World Order, I mean the great "you'll own nothing and be happy" reset.

I'm on the same boat, but I'm not against communists and socialists voluntarily starting their own communes. I'm a Panarchist and I think both systems can coexist. I'm just tired of commies thinking that the whole world needs to fall under their system.

[xianc78](https://bae.st/users/xianc78) Never heard of panarchy before, rating the name it would be like a combination of multiple political ideologies, or?\
I'm an anarchist (anarcho-capitalist to be more precise, because I still believe that capital is still important in a soyciety that lacks human life skills like how to build your own house, how to grow your own food, and so on).\
Unlike what the mainstream media makes it out to be, anarchy simply means "lack of ruler", so it's self-governance.

[@ryo](https://social.076.moe/ryo)
>What, is that a thing too now...

I've only heard about it. Can't remember specifics, but I could be wrong.

>I wonder how long it'll take before a mass exitus from those ISPs will come and have such an impact, that they'll be forced to back down, and other ISPs will take note.

Not if it is required by law. Then your only option would be to use a black market ISP which even if some prop up, most normies wouldn't even bother using them.\
Another thing that has been brought up is that governments and corporations can use backdoors in CPUs to kill crypto and other processes. Sure there might be some obscure and open source architectures out there but how many people are using them and how well supported are they?

Panarchy is a political system where people can voluntarily choose what political or economic system to live by. It's pretty much compatible with ancap principles. In fact, it's just another way of expressing anarcho-capitalism.\
People can use property and contract law to create "voluntary governments" where if you follow their rules, you receive benefits like access to certain amenities and services. Or you can choose no government and just take care of everything yourself (or buy services from others if they don't require you to be part of a contract).\
Lately, I've been looking for other words to describe myself like "voluntaryist" or "autarchist". I think "anarchy" and "capitalism" both have negative connotations and I feel like the whole "live and let live" principle should also include letting people live by whatever system they want.

[xianc78](https://bae.st/users/xianc78) I'm willing to build a RISC-V based PC.\
I'm using exclusively FOSS software, so for support that's not an issue.\
The problem rather is, where do you even buy a SiFive?

I don't mind a government system that has an opt-out and/or opt-in feature built-in, the question is how long is that feature going to exist before the least free government starts brainwashing those who live under the other governments into compliance?

Or even worse, imagine some corporation buying up the entire free market via industrial investors while buying up all the politicians in the world and ASS-ASSinating dissent, and then some stereotypically German sounding boomer would call for a 1 world government, making every single world misleader repeat "Build Back Better" all at the same time.\
That would be a disaster to humanity if that would ever happen...
